並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E5%8F%B0/%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E8%99%9F%E5%88%97%E8%BB%8A%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B-%E8%81%86%E8%B3%9E-%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E7%84%A6%E5%85%83%E6%BA%A5%E7%9A%8437%E5%A0%82%E5%8F%A4%E5%85%B8%E9%9F%B3%E6%A8%82%E8%AA%B2-denj_UO9BFl/