並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep56-%E6%95%99%E7%A7%91%E6%9B%B8%E4%B8%8A%E9%82%A3%E4%BD%8D%E9%84%AD%E6%88%90%E5%8A%9F%E5%85%88%E7%94%9F-%E4%B8%89%E7%BC%BA%E4%B8%80%E5%8A%87%E5%9C%98-%E5%9C%8B%E5%A7%93%E7%88%BA%E4%B9%8B%E5%A4%A2/id1547167011?i=1000542232028&itsct=podcast_box_link&itscg=30200&ls=1