並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep24-%E5%85%A8%E5%8A%9B%E6%89%93%E9%80%A0%E4%B8%8B%E4%B8%80%E5%80%8B%E8%81%B7%E7%B1%83%E7%9B%9B%E4%B8%96-%E6%96%B0%E8%81%B7%E7%B1%83%E8%81%AF%E7%9B%9F%E5%9F%B7%E8%A1%8C%E9%95%B7-%E9%BB%91%E4%BA%BA-%E9%99%B3%E5%BB%BA%E5%B7%9E/id1501311224?i=1000489720594