並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep13-%E5%86%8D%E6%A5%B5%E7%AB%AF%E7%9A%84%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%E7%99%BC%E7%94%9F%E9%83%BD%E8%A6%81%E7%AC%91%E8%91%97-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E5%AD%B8%E7%BF%92%E6%8E%A5%E5%8F%97%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1%E5%85%B6%E5%AF%A6%E4%B8%8D%E5%AE%8C%E7%BE%8E/id1550562997?i=1000518789792