並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep23-%E6%A0%A1%E9%9A%8A%E5%B8%B8%E5%9D%90%E5%86%B7%E6%9D%BF%E5%87%B3-%E4%BD%99%E5%B9%B3%E9%A1%A5%E6%88%90%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E9%A6%96%E4%BD%8D%E8%A8%93%E7%B7%B4%E5%B8%AB%E8%B5%B0%E5%87%BA%E4%B8%8D%E5%90%8C%E7%9A%84%E7%B1%83%E7%90%83%E8%B7%AF/id1481973949?i=1000463999482